As some others around the World, we are setting a base station using Ublox F9P + arduino to include messages for Trimble 1008, 1230, John dere.....Topcon...............
OBs. it is not Ntrip. as above an arduino is used to include messages missing
a Simple question: Do any of them have Patent on these messages? Will I and others be using something which is not allowed? Can I be facing a Trial doing it?
Short answer: no
Long answer: RTCM is an open standard and the specification is free for everyone to view and implement. The reason some messages might need to be added (such as 1008) is simply down to the choice of the manufacturers, choosing to either require certain messages or not produce them
Trimble is using the RTCM standard.
They also publicly published their TSIP messages.
Deere has different message structure, but same information.
Isobus is a public standard.
I have the right to repair, or upgrade my equipment. My gps guidance understanding far exceed the dealers employees.
Information is passed through language, I am not barred from learning German, French, Spanish, C#, RTCM.
Farmers innovation and industriousness has fuelled the success of all industries. Be it a new time saving tool, or by sending their kids to University.
Apollo astronauts?
I think stifling farmers innovation is “ cutting off the root of new ideas “
Deere himself broke convention by turning a saw blade into a plow. This is the hill, and i will die upon it.
I am a farmboy, I will figure it out, the rain does not wait.
2 Likes
Open standard does not mean “no patents”. Think about 3GPP and cellular standards. In any case you are allowed to use the 1008 message on your private base even if some company had patents on that message. You would not be allowed to build business on that without obtaining a licence.
Isobus “public standard” Are you sure? extremely hard to find tech infos about “for free”
Can hardly understand we must pay (€200 per Iso 11783 document: there are more than 10!)
Why to pay for something aimed to become a “standard”?
same for SAE J1939…
Your paying the publisher for the public document.
Did you have to show credentials that you are an employee of Deere or Trimble to buy the standards documentation?
Math is public, but the University still wants you to buy the book.
But the real deal is I bought my Tractor and I will fix my Tractor, its my Tractor.
If it came with ISOBUS, guess what i am fixing ISOBUS.
If they do not want me to fix it, they can come fix it for free, like a rental.
I think that’s the divide, they no longer want owners, they want renters that pay all the bills and take all the liability.
1 Like
ISO standards, or any other standard for that matter, need not be freely available nor do they have to patent unencumbered. Standard industry practice is to simply ensure patents pertaining to a standard are available under what they call fair, reasonable, and non-discriminatory (FRAND) terms. What that means is anyone’s guess. There’s also the issue of copyright of the standards text, and paying for the maintenance and upkeep of the standards document.
Does ISOBUS speak to standards for auto steer other than defining a few standard j1939 PGNs for communicating GPS information to implements? If there are, no one implements them as every system operates in its own independent world.
From what I can tell ISOBUS mostly address issues of implement/tractor communication (including the virtual terminal), standardized mechanisms for storing coverage maps and providing subscriptions (task managers), etc. The standard is so complex that no manufacturer is completely compatible and interchangeable with another. From what I’ve been told, interoperability is tested in an informal way.
In my opinion, CAN bus communication may have some place in AOG in the future, mostly to supply an implement or other isobus display with GPS information. Unless a full-featured, open source implementation of all relevant aspects of ISOBUS is produced (yes I’m aware of some work in this area), I don’t see a huge need or desire to bring AOG closer to ISOBUS. At least not at this point, unless a significant volunteer effort was mounted to that effect. ISOBUS is interesting, but it’s quite byzantine, and despite thousands of pages of specifications, is still ambiguous.
2 Likes
But this all will be a moot point once we all do what farmers do best and innovate our own system. Which I must say the originators of this forum are well on their way. I’ve come late but I hope to start innovating on this platform soon as well.
The dark side of the expensive Trimble and Deere setups is they are intensively farming you for your crop data. Then reselling that data to Elevators for example, or using it to adjust their pricing to how much they think you are profiting. Its sure easy to set the buying price to the bare minimum if you know exactly how much Crop is being taken off.
Hop in a brand new CASE sprayer see how far you get if your GPS is down.
4 Likes