UDP only - Where is AOG heading

To say this has caused far too many words typed in the dev group is an understatement. So, I am putting up this discussion to hear some feedback and explain a few things.

We all know the downside of usb, drivers, loss of connection from poorly designed connectors, constantly figuring which port (was it com5 or com9 or com3 or… ) and then have the numbers changed plugging them in in a different spot. The upside? We all know how to plug in a usb and they generally work. But, if you need to go more then 3 or 4 meters - you are stuck. Because all ground loops together from the connections, there can be noise causing problems and once a single bit goes missing, usb says good bye and won’t reconnect till you bing bong the plug.

There is an option to overcome length, to use a usb to multi RS232 box where there is one usb connected and you see several ports. Quality versions are not cheap, and rs232 is very reliable, noise immune, able to go long distance - but then you are still back to picking ports to do specific tasks.

UDP is a network based on everything sent everywhere. A switch box allows multiple modules to be connected together, and being udp all you need to do is plug them in and it works. Ethernet also has the advantage of small transformers in each RJ45 connector allowing isolation without a big ground loop for the signal. Many people use udp and it has been proven to very reliable. Within our application udp can easily handle any distance, which by the way is 100m.

I think you see where this is going. Use udp and make AgIO simple, connection simple, secure and reliable, and fully plug and play without picking com ports. That said, serial connection will remain for primary gps in along with an additional RTCM port to send to a second connector for RTK.

As far as Roll in dual, as soon as you go float you lose roll accuracy very quickly. The thought is to use the imu for roll on dual as well. This allows a couple of neat things - using the dual antenna with one antenna over the pivot, the other at the front of the tractor giving no offset and very long accurate heading values as well as pitch. You can also just use dual roll as well.

As far as hardware, there is still debate on exactly how to arrange the parts. A single board with ublox/bynav/septentrio sockets that allow single and dual system along with mounted imu for correction. But here is where it gets fuzzy. Do we integrate the the steer with the gps? Do we integrate machine control as well making a true all in one board? Or keep gps separate and have steering and machine or… you can see the possibilities of combinations. Being udp - you just plug in whatever is made and the data will get there and back.

GPS is the most likely to change as far as future designs. Autosteer hasn’t changed much at all in 3 years. Machine is the poor stepchild that gets left behind all the time.

As far as ethernet not being on a tablet, no problem as the only way out is usb, you use a usb to ethernet adaptor. If you have type C you can use a usb to switch like this:

The only setting really is match your computer ip address to the one we set for AgIO - which will not be 192.168.1.x so that common networks don’t interfere, especially wireless. Another option is use a household router that provides a switch and wifi to send to a esp32 based module (not gps though). You can attach camera’s for computer vision via ethernet as well, and many other things. As GPS moves to 20 and 50 hz, ethernet can also allow higher fix rates.

I would love to hear your thoughts. I know this is a large post, but its a large topic. By far the most important thing to mention - don’t fear ethernet, it is a lot easier then usb if the system is designed fully to use it.


I like the all in one board with GPS etc for its simplicity because you just plug the GPS in to header, no wires or UDP connectors etc and setup, problem is if ardusimple, by Nav ublox etc make 1 change to format then Aog boards are toast.
I really like the new style boards with the weatherproof enclosure and connectors mounted to them, eliminates me having to run wires through the box etc, nice and clean.
If the IMU can work in the 1 box with Aog that’s simple but also a simple IMU board with a UDP connection to a hub works as well and opens up more possibilities for mounting positions.
Could there be a box with GPS and ImU in it or does ImU need to go to AOg box first?
Lots of variations but I like the idea of boards for mounting stuff and would like to see that when stuff gets mounted on to boards that the boards integrate the UDP so that we don’t have to add UDP adapter to things like ImU, GPS etc.
Also need lots of documentation on how or what to initial setup of IPs for different things like GPS, ImU etc. Is there a standardized list if what GPS, ImU etc should be set to for Up addresses?
Also would like to see some sort of modem/router setup that could either take a sim card or pickup wifi from my cellphone for access to the internet, then that same box give off IP address range for the whole AOg setup to simplify that process.
Sorry for the long answers, hope you get lots of discussion

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If someone can tell me now to setup my computer to connect to cell phones(or wi-fi) and do UPD (over USB c with a hub) at same time I will try.
I lost to many hours trying make UDP working and had never any issue with USB. So it will be USB for this spring.

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I may be in the minority but my vote is for UDP only, usb was good when initially setting up as it made for fast connections but it just is not reliable enough as this project matures.
and for separate boards as I find it easier to hide smaller boards behind panels, also prefer the machine board to be permanently attached to the mounted or trailed machine, that way only power & comm wire needs to be routed between tractor and machine. all machine data/dimensions stored on the machine board so when hitched upto a tractor, auto selection of tractor/machine combo can be done in AOG.


The problem I have always had was to get your cellphone hotspot to give off the same IP address as AOg needs, like 192.168.1.x. Only luck I have had was to use a modem that I can set the IP addresses on, then your laptop set to connect to that hotspot.

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UDP also opens up the ability to go wireless, as I have done with OpenGradeX. Antenna host the network and other modules, as well as your cellphone hotspot connect to that. Just run power to the modules and you’re set. As far as I am concerned the less wires the better!

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I never considered UDP setup with modem, ethernet shields, ethernet to usb adapters, USB to ethernet hub, setting up ip addresses, buying new cables…

USB is working and is very easy to connect I dont have a need for longer connection than 3m. If you dont change USB places ports stays the same.


I think the key word is currently working. the struggle we maybe have is working for tomorrow for all but the very most basic system without a rats nest of wires and ports, or multiple serial connections going to the same module as you can’t squeeze data thru in a timely manner.

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pro UDP:
you can use common, cheap parts
with ethernet and WiFi there is a standard for cable and wireless. wireless is really needed for use cases on sprayers and other tools, as the control box belongs to the tool
with UDP you can make small controllers close to the best place, like the IMU under the cap.
I use full WiFi systems for years and they work perfectly

So very clear PRO UDP


I also make a clear vote for UDP. Stable systems for the last 3 or 4? Years…

Regarding ethernet and WiFi at the same time (or integrated 3g modem ) this little trick helped me… Sorry it’s German.
It took me hours to find the cause of it :see_no_evil:



fMinimizeConnections - 0


If USB is a bottleneck in system development go for UDP only those that need v6 will adapt those that dont will stay at v5 as with v4 who didn’t want to move up from BNO055 to BNO08x or CMPS14.

I made section control box and it’s absolute rat nest with wires because I need it in tractor to be close to USB hub and just push power cables for solenoids to sprayer. With wireless this would be a lot cleaner and easier to do.

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People can always stay with usb and v5. V5 is stable and got a lot of functions.

PoE passive or active would also be a nice thing.

Hello, I’ve been using the Ethernet connection for 1 year now and I’m satisfied. For anyone investing in a tablet, my recommendation is clearly to buy one with a LAN socket. Most Panasonics have one.

If my tablet only have one USB conection do I need USB hub for USB stuff like gps then USB to ethernet hub from USB hub?

Hello, why not also consider an isolated serial link like the canBus. Many other solutions than AGO use CAN.
I see several advantages to this:
_2 son only easily passable everywhere compared to ethernet.
_No switch/router needed
-all modules can talk and listen at the same time.
_0 configuration to do.
_the antenna/imu fusion that you prepared seems to use teensy which already integrates CAN
_Existing PCBs can easily be converted to CAN with a shield (kaupoi already has the location)
_ to be able to add new modules to infinity without redesigning everything and to be adapted by the most experienced.

The main disadvantage, is not the least… it’s how to make the CAN connection with the tablets. There are CAN to Ethernet converters, or CAN to USB converters (however in this case AgIO should surely permanently scan the ports for a Plug and Play connection).

Here is just a reflection on the CAN. I don’t have much opinion on the LAN because I don’t use it. personally I use everything in bluetooth and it works really well. the only disadvantage that I can find in the LAN is the big enough wires to pass and having a switch/router.


I’ve just newly got my setup working on usb.

However I can easily see the udp advantages and wouldn’t be worried about it. I would need a very basic guide of how to set it up. I ssee lots of posts about ip numbers, and routers and i simply don’t know anything about it compared with the simplicity of plugging in a usb.

Seperate boards gets my vote. Especially IMU. Makes sense to be able to mount it seperately on a different plane than where you tuck the steering box.

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Never had used the ethernet and USB is still working good on my two tractors where I have AOG installed. But I can imagine that a bit more time and the connectors will get loose and the connection will become unstable.

For sure the RJ45 connectors are more durable, stable and the ethernet connection is better. So if there will be just ethernet option and I want to try the newest AOG version I will be forced to change to ethernet. Sometimes a bit of force isn´t bad :slight_smile: .

How are you uploading sketches to arduino, ESP or teensy when you have ethernet ?

Teensy has a can so CAN modules can bee connected to teensy and everything other can work thru ethernet ?

As my experiance of USB but not UDP

The problem of USB Com port appears as begining with V5 i never see some real trouble compare to V4

and finally it is more plug and play beacause just connect to the right port

I think now AOG going to a new level and UDP, teensy ( Can as suggested @Daniel ) are probably the future and need to go to this direction

As module subject i think it will be smart to have autonomous module for

-GPS and IMU( probably complex to do cheap)
-Autosteer with machine control
-Indepandant machine control

so i consider UDP as next generation

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I don’t comment on USB-UDP, both have pros and cons, for now I still use USB. The PCB on the other hand, I am for GPS + autosteer together and machines apart

For retrofitting existing systems to UDP.

Tablet USB hub.

USB hub to ethernet hub.

direct drop in replacement to nano place on pcb_v2? and section control nano.

Cables or hunting for old modems boxes.

With 2m cables for autosteer PCB and section control going UDP would be ~15€.

So GPS and webcam stays USB or not?

Why is modem used for some setups and is it required?