It sure does! People need to play with settings and especially side hill compensation. I think a lack of information for adjusting on the go is a culprit for this as it takes a ton of time to try and put together a tutorial that’s searchable for specific topics. Then there’s a version update and…
Currently planting potatoes with TrueGuide( Trimbles passive imp. steering) Really was hoping aog had a feature like this. This planter doesnt have steering rear axle like new ones do otherwise id use 2 AgOpen systems. Its 2 point mount so id have to find a hyd. 3 point hitch to steer like that. Dont see many around…
Depending on where your at, I’m located in Minnesota, USA. I have a third navigator slide hitch that I’m not using anymore that I’d sell. Super simple setup. It does work awesome with a second system.
Ok care to share how that is done cause minae sure doesnt
I really hope I am wrong on this, and please correct me if someone knows for sure that it is different, but the way I understand, the way AOG works is like this:
- It always keeps the rear axle of the tractor on the line. HOWEVER
- AOG moves the tractor back down the guidance line the length of your implement hitch, otherwise if you drove a curve line one direction and then the other direction, your implement would not trail the same at all. This can make it appear like AOG is trying to adjust for implement drift etc. but really all it is doing is moving forward or backward down the guidance line based on your hitch length.
- AOG does paint where the algorithm “thinks” your implement is trailing, but this does not effect how the tractor steers. The tractor is always trying to keep the rear axle on the line.
Like I said, if someone knows better than me, please correct me.
This I can’t say for sure, I’m more familiar with side hill and point rows. never cared about curves as much as now with tool steer.
For a half million bucks, it sure should. Most guys on here on retrofitting a $10k tractor or a lawn mower. I would doubt passive tool steering will be a thing as I’m guessing so many variables to code. Tool steer is much more manageable to work with as will be similar for most installs to keep sub cm accuracy.
just set all my measurements up properly
was drilling a side slope couple of weeks ago average was 17degrees slope
working from bottom to top so tractor wasnt running on drilled ground (mounted seeder)
i didnt get a picture but could clearly see the nose of tractor about 2feet up the hill and looked out of the lower door to see the rear coulters about smack bang on the line of previous pass
have you set your implement length etc?
in corners i can see agopen steering the tractor out so my implement is running correct
AgOpenGPS will not make a path to keep implement on the line.
It will keep the tractor pivot on the line in PP / blue tractor mode.
If the “integral” setting is used, this setting is normally between 5 and 20. It will automatically compensate for errors caused from being pushed or sliding on hills etc.
It works like this:
- Are we getting closer to the line?
- Yes = do nothing.
- No = adjust the current heading a little (the integral setting is how much to add each time).
- Oh shit passed the line = back off slightly what we just added
As you say the tractor nose is running up the hill above the line slightly (crab steering) and the drill will line up with the last pass because the same error / crabbing was also there on the last pass.
The side hill setting just adds abit of wheel angle to automatically turn up hill. This is more when you know it’s aways going to slide down hill and the integral can be turned off or used aswell
2 Likes
Another trick for implements like side mowers that aways push to one side (not hill related) is to set the tractor wheel angle zero with the tool in the working position and driving straight.
Im glad for you that your steering works for you but it still just keeps tractor piviot in place not tge implement😉
So it may appear that way as long as your are traveling in the same direction as you were when you made the line.
If you made your contour line by driving it with the implement along and manually driving where you want the implement,then it records where the tractor antenna is which will be correct as long as you come back the same direction on the line. If you come the opposite direction on that line with a long trailed implement then watch out! You might get tangled in the weeds!
If you make the contour line from the boundary which is an amazing feature, but the boundary was recorded with a tractor only, no implement, and driven along edge of field, or if recording the boundary with implement but having the recording point back at edge of implement like the newest version lets you do, then what happens is that you come in with a drawn implement and follow the line that is built off of the boundary line, and on outside curves, if they sharp enough the planter trails right out into the weeds, and on inside curves the planter trails inward and leaves a gap at edge of field.
Side hills on straight ABs are a different animal, but try planting on a side hill with a pull type planter, with side hill per degree of roll set to zero then turn around and come back on same path with it set up for tractor only and look if tractor drives between the rows or if it follows the same tractor track. It will be following the same tractor track!
Both of these issues woudl be fixed with Passive steering where the system steers travtor to put implement reciver on the line at all times.
3 Likes
I understand and that makes complete sense. On a hill side however, passive steering can’t keep up to sub cm precision as tractor heading is going up hill compensating tractor and implement up hill. As tractor heading changes, this steers 3 point mount drastically in direction that is then steering implement in an opposite direction. This lag time from tractor to implement is why there’s tool steering itself. It may be clumsy for some people, until they figure out the capabilities of it and then wonder why they didn’t start using years ago. Hill side slopes needed, flat land not so much. Gradual curves, works great. Sharper curves not so much right now.
I see your point kinda except a steering hitch in front of a drawn planter sure wont have instant results either by any means . So that means everything in your opinion has to be 3 point mounted with a side sliding hitch . So picture a 12 or 16 or 24 row planter on a sliding hitch which then makes the planter set even farther away from the tractor !!? Yeah maybe a cheap little home made slider hitch for the small stuff but what about the big planters!
I know what a passive guidance system looks like on side hills their pretty impressive
Cat 4 slide hitch? I didn’t know that was small I guess! It sets the planter back 12 inches, not much. A slide hitch, swing hitch or implement steer axle is what we’re familiar with. I run all 30 foot equipment.
I’m not quite sure if you understand the geometry of when tractor heading turns uphill, this turns implement downhill for short period of time. This is where tool steer picks up the lag instantaneously to adjust on line. Tool worries only about its own XTE while tractor makes up the majority of the XTE. Think of it as the tractor correcting the bulk of the xte and then tool steer making up the finite xte. Passive would be great also, where you could turn down the proportional gain for the tractor to stay off the next row and let tool make up the difference. On sharp curves though, passive would have to run over rows. Implement steer axle at that point is only way around staying on a tight curve ab line.
In my opinion there is definitely a use for both active and passive steering. @MarkO I agree with you that passive will probably never be sub centimeter, but even within 4 or 5 centimeters would be far far better than nothing. The advantage to passive, is that all it requires is an extra receiver on the implement. Much much cheaper and easier than buying some kind of sliding hitch that won’t have enough travel for curves, and having to plumb in hydraulics. Absolutely there is a use case for active steering, and with straight lines it is going to be the most accurate and will also allow the tractor to keep from driving on the rows. I would be super enthused to someday be able to use passive or active steer with AOG, but I also understand that it would probably take some pretty complicated algorithms for passive, so I’m trying to not be too optimistic. Lol
1 Like
In the international Telegram group Brian wrote about that passive implement guidence there I asked about the idea of a passive curve compatation like at Fendt VarioGuide and also with a tool receiver was talked about in this situation.
So he was like if it need to be good in Curves and on slopes it would need to have a receiver at the tool. He wrote that only the calcultation like Fendt does and AOG uses fot painting is not good enough.
I heard pretty impressed users of the fendt varioguide in curves too(pass to pass in curves like described above)
So still the situation here with smaller tools in Germany is diffrent but we have kind of the same problems sometimes.
If you want to do Striptill at small hills and curves you need a system like the Deere f.e.
So they steer the slurry tanker with the stripper passive and still record the exact lines of the stripper were it was in reality.
The Planter has a kind of side shift which steers to these recorded lines. Planter and stripper have the same number of rows.
I guess if it should be really accurate you need sideshift so called active tool steer because passive will be to slow in this case.
This is the case for striptill or row cultivation and if you don’t record the pass of the implement also the first pass f.e slurry with stripper needs to have a shifting frame in the back to get it always were it should be because passive could be to slow and you would need to record it.
But at many applications it is not needed to have active toolsteer!
I agree with you even if I have no big clue of coding that passive tool steering should be much more complex to code but it is much more easy to use not much hardware is needed and the Trimbles and Deeres seem to work quite good also Chinese FJD will launch a passive and active Toolsteere they are testing it at the moment.
If you only want to have you Tramline at the right spot at hills or curves so you can drive through it the next pass spraying via autosteer or between the corn rows you don’t need to be that perfect in my opinion. So if it is only imported for Tramline and first pass at a curve if you recorded it via 3 point tool and seed with trailed one im my opinion active toolsteer is way over the top you need many extras to make it work like hydraulic valves a big frame and so on. Next problem is that at small tractor with a 3 point tool the frame adds weight and distance which will make it not work anymore.
Active implement steering remains a niche product for organic farming; in my opinion, passive implement steering covers 90% of the problems that really affect everyone who uses a steering system. These include good slope compensation, repeatability on curves, especially the first track with different implement types, and simple and inexpensive installation, as the hardware for AOG is quite inexpensive and the main cost driver would be two receivers, assuming you use dual on the implement.
So, to come to a conclusion, I also believe that a active and passive systems have there right to exist but passive is much more common and does solve many problems if it works fine like you here about the OEMs.
Due to its complexity with things like the possibility of recording the tracks of a passive tool like John Deere does or having a good code for passive toolsteer that all requires a lot of work and time I guess the guys who thought of passive toolsteering is up coming up were wrong because in the telegram group passive and active were mixed but maybe I am totally wrong.
The developers have already done a lot for all users; you just can’t expect everything, and even the commercial systems have points, in addition to the price, where you, as a user, say that AOG does this a lot better.
1 Like
So explain this yet. Active tool steer using a side to side sliding 3 point hitch will place the tool quickly in the right spot.
Now how about a steering hitch between tractor drawbar and planter hitch that would be pretty slow to keep planter on line would it not ? Its trying to make a correction at the front end of a 20’ long wheel base… woupd that even be much quicker or better than passive guidance?